Euro 2024

[valiant_593]

3 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Taylor’s managerial win rate is worse than Southgate’s and he had a reputation for long ball football. McLaren was successful at Boro by winning the League Cup but he was bankrolled by Steve Gibson and the Boro fans were quite pleased to see the back of him.

I am in no way suggesting that Southgate is some sort of managerial maestro but I do believe some of the criticism of him on this thread is way over the top. There are plenty of England managers who have achieved less than him in the role. 

What has Southgate achieved as England manager? Far better players, no success. 

[Rory]

26 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Southgate was the manager of the U21 team and had an excellent record with them. Managed over 30 games and only lost 3. 

Fair enough, I thought he was crap with them. In my mind he went from that U21 tournament where everyone was calling to him a dummy, to being promoted to the senior job.

[Brian Johnson]

3 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

What has Southgate achieved as England manager? Far better players, no success. 

So, Beckham, Gerrard, Rooney, Scholes, Lampard, Seaman, Ferdinand, Campbell, Owen, Shearer etc etc are not that good then?

[Brian Johnson]

1 minute ago, Rory said:

Fair enough, I thought he was crap with them. In my mind he went from that U21 tournament where everyone was calling to him a dummy, to being promoted to the senior job.

Who was calling him a dummy?

[valefan16]

Southgate has done a decent job in taking us a step further from say Sven who had us QF most years, all be it with the What Ifs of Seaman's error v Brazil (win that we win the WC) Rooney injury in 04 and red in 06 v  Portugal...

but the let down is for all the attacking quality we have he is somewhat negative at times and thats cost us as our back line is our weak point.

v Croatia we were cruising, Kane squares we go in at HT 2-0 up, second half we got deeper and never recovered, chance gone.

Final v Italy, early lead, sat back got battered for large parts and the equaliser was inevitable, against an ageing back line we should of really gone at them but left with the what if's.

He needs to play to our strengths which us the attacking power we have which is only matched by France currently.

 

[valiant_593]

3 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

So, Beckham, Gerrard, Rooney, Scholes, Lampard, Seaman, Ferdinand, Campbell, Owen, Shearer etc etc are not that good then?

This side now is better than that. Not all of the above played together at the prime age. At the moment we have Bellingham, Foden, Kane, rice who I think are all probably at their best now. I think a decent manager would have won something back then as well. 

He did a decent job early doors but is a nearly man and in my opinion isn’t good enough to get us to the next level and actually win things. His in game management is really poor when it matters, (Italy in the fine is the easiest example) 

Southgate lost us that tournament. Bang average manager. 

[ValeGez]

Going by the criteria of ‘success’ on here = winning something , then the only successful manager we’ve ever had is Sir Alf . 
Who would you like to take over ?

 

[valiant_593]

16 minutes ago, ValeGez said:

Going by the criteria of ‘success’ on here = winning something , then the only successful manager we’ve ever had is Sir Alf . 
Who would you like to take over ?

 

I think given how long Southgate has had as manager and the multiple nearly moments and players at his disposal, I think it’s more than fair that the measure of success is actually winning something. There would be literally 20/30 managers minimum I would take over Southgate. If we are talking English managers, Howe, O’Niel, Dyche, Potter, Cooper - probably McKenna after he keeps Ipswich up (as I think he will do) 

Edited June 10 by valiant_593

[ValeGez]

7 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I think given how long Southgate has had as manager and the multiple nearly moments and players at his disposal, I think it’s more than fair that the measure of success is actually winning something. There would be literally 20/30 managers minimum I would take over Southgate. If we are talking English managers, Howe, O’Niel, Dyche, Potter, Cooper - probably McKenna after he keeps Ipswich up (as I think he will do) 

I’m not saying Southgate has had much success just that he’s got to semi finals and a final . People are comparing him to many other managers who’ve come and gone with much less on the board than Southgate so the only one to better that was Sir Alf . Anyway he’ll be gone soon unless he pulls a rabbit out in the next few weeks ,  can’t see that happening but who knows .
Interesting few names put forward there to replace him, probably a bit too much of a job for some of them ( handling some of the big time Charlie’s ) but again who knows . 

[philpvfc]

2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Taylor’s managerial win rate is worse than Southgate’s and he had a reputation for long ball football. McLaren was successful at Boro by winning the League Cup but he was bankrolled by Steve Gibson and the Boro fans were quite pleased to see the back of him.

I am in no way suggesting that Southgate is some sort of managerial maestro but I do believe some of the criticism of him on this thread is way over the top. There are plenty of England managers who have achieved less than him in the role. 

I totally agree with you. Taylor was crap for England and Southgate has done reasonably, but I do think Taylor is better tactical manager than Southgate ever will be but was A) never given a chance with England and B) Southgate is far better on the press and man management side.

[Jacko51]

3 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

What has Southgate achieved as England manager? Far better players, no success. 

If you judge success by trophies we’ve only had one successful manager and the rest must have been crap. 

[valiant_593]

3 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

If you judge success by trophies we’ve only had one successful manager and the rest must have been crap. 

That’s not what I said.

Success now is different to success when Gareth took over. He has had time, we have possibly the best side in the world, he’s had 3 very nearly moments to draw experience from. Success this time cannot be to get to another semi final and narrowly lose against France or Portugal.

What do you think success looks like with this group of players?

For me, with this side and Southgate’s experience to draw upon, success is winning this tournament this time around. 

Edited June 10 by valiant_593

[Jacko51]

1 hour ago, valiant_593 said:

I think given how long Southgate has had as manager and the multiple nearly moments and players at his disposal, I think it’s more than fair that the measure of success is actually winning something. There would be literally 20/30 managers minimum I would take over Southgate. If we are talking English managers, Howe, O’Niel, Dyche, Potter, Cooper - probably McKenna after he keeps Ipswich up (as I think he will do) 

But none of those have won anything so must be rubbish!!

[valiant_593]

2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

But none of those have won anything so must be rubbish!!

Stop twisting my words. There is a huge difference between not winning with England when you have Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Kane ect and being 1-0 up in a final and doing nothing. Than Sean Dyche batting to keep a side deducted how ever many points in the premiership. 

Im sure McKenna literally just won’t the championship. 

As per my other post. Success isn’t always about winning but in my opinion this time for Gareth and England it is. That is a completely different ball game to Ipswich this season where success is staying in the premiership. Just like Newcastle getting into the championship league was a success.

Edited June 10 by valiant_593

[philpvfc]

45 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

But none of those have won anything so must be rubbish!!

Howe and McKenna have both won promotion, that is far more than Southgate has won.