Euro 2024

[JoeB2]

1 minute ago, Jacko51 said:

You’re just making stuff up now, Phil. Stick to the facts. 

Giving credence to world rankings is clinging on to flawed evidence to support an argument. Has anyone ever given 'world rankings' any serious consideration?

[Jacko51]

7 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

Giving credence to world rankings is clinging on to flawed evidence to support an argument. Has anyone ever given 'world rankings' any serious consideration?

World rankings don’t even support Phil’s argument. Here they are for the last five years - England never top. 

[darren1810]

3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

So is the Trippier argument that he shouldn't have been picked because he's been rubbish for 2 months or he shouldn't have been picked because he's hardly played for 2 months?  I'm confused?

Because injured. No game time.

He was quality until then. Can't carry injured players in tournaments. 

[Paul6754]

3 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

Regardless of quality of squad (2004-06 was much better), what the lads in Coral HQ thought, or the weather, the only manager to outdo Southgate's record of a major tournament final (lost on penalties) and a semi-final is Alf Ramsey. That's an objective fact.

It's not a question of 'is he brilliant', but he's the best we've seen and it's completely spurious to hypothesise that alternative, non-existent managers would have got us to that final/semi-final, let alone win it. 

He's the best we've seen because there's been no others during the last 3 major tournaments where arguably we've had some of the best talent to pick from in recent years, hence the win % of Southgate. England are the football equivalent of "Flat track bullies".

England have lost against virtually the first major footballing nation faced in the KO stages of the last 3 major tournaments, that alone should raise questions about Southgate's ability as a manager and tactician His win % of 29.8 % at 'Boro suggests he's no tactical genius.

[Brian Johnson]

39 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Wrong yet again. I’ve just pointed out facts, when all you have spouted your opinions stating them to be facts. 

You have made scenarios up. 

 

23 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

You’re just making stuff up now, Phil. Stick to the facts - that’s what you want isn’t it. 

Apparently you are wrong for calling him out for making stuff up

[Jacko51]

7 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

Because injured. No game time.

He was quality until then. Can't carry injured players in tournaments. 

Trippier started both the friendlies proving his fitness and has played more games in the season than Henderson and Shaw put together yet they’re both in the squad?

[Jacko51]

7 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

He's the best we've seen because there's been no others during the last 3 major tournaments where arguably we've had some of the best talent to pick from in recent years, hence the win % of Southgate. England are the football equivalent of "Flat track bullies".

England have lost against virtually the first major footballing nation faced in the KO stages of the last 3 major tournaments, that alone should raise questions about Southgate's ability as a manager and tactician His win % of 29.8 % at 'Boro suggests he's no tactical genius.

Get that win percentage at Boro is a huge feat in amongst all that smog!

[Rory]

13 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

World rankings don’t even support Phil’s argument. Here they are for the last five years - England never top. 

They might have been top at some point if Southgate could win a few against decent sides.

I don't think he's done as bad a job as Capello did, but other than him I think he's the worst I've seen and it's even more sickening when seeing these golden opportunities go to waste.

I'd be happier if Darren Moore was in charge of England this month and that's saying something.

[philpvfc]

36 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

Name an England manager who has been more successful than Southgate, bar Alf Ramsey.

I'm not sure the odds of English bookmakers are quite the 'gotcha' you think they are.

Bookies are usually correct. Zero trophies under Southgate, I wouldn’t say he has been successful.

[philpvfc]

37 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

You’re just making stuff up now, Phil. Stick to the facts - that’s what you want isn’t it. 

Oh, sorry, I must have missed a tournament England have actually won 

[philpvfc]

29 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

World rankings don’t even support Phil’s argument. Here they are for the last five years - England never top. 

When have I ever said we were top?

I said we are ranked higher for a long long time. The only data I can find is for the last 32 years and it clearly shows this

FIFA World Ranking 1992-2024 | Kaggle

WWW.KAGGLE.COM

 

[JoeB2]

I think it's the binary, 'well, he didn't win a tournament, ergo he's rubbish!' view which I'm struggling to accept. I'm not coming in here to argue that he's absolutely brilliant.

I completely agree that he should have done more in 2021 to see out the win. He also reacted pretty slowly in 2018. 2022 we were up against a better side and, if Kane had placed his 2nd penalty better, probably go on to beat them.

I also think he inherited a national side in turmoil with a real discord between fans and team, with immense pressure and continued underperformance. He's then overseen three top-8 finishes in succession, integrating talent at a time when we've often failed to do so, reconnected fans and team, and was a penalty shootout away from a knighthood and footballing immortality. It's not 'build the statue' level-stuff at all, but not worthy of the at times visceral hatred he seems to get from folk who have forgotten what supporting England usually entails.

He's done, at worst, a decent job - and will be gone in September (probably after another QF defeat) with a pretty decent legacy. Not a genius, not rubbish. On the good side of decent, imo. 7/10. Not everything has to be either brilliant or crap.

[Jacko51]

22 minutes ago, Rory said:

They might have been top at some point if Southgate could win a few against decent sides.

I don't think he's done as bad a job as Capello did, but other than him I think he's the worst I've seen and it's even more sickening when seeing these golden opportunities go to waste.

I'd be happier if Darren Moore was in charge of England this month and that's saying something.

Roy Hodgson?

[Jacko51]

11 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

When have I ever said we were top?

 

Here: “How do you work that out? Zero trophies with an England team ranked highest in the world rankings for a long long time.”  

[Rory]

12 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Roy Hodgson?

Had a superior record against the world's top sides with a vastly inferior pool of talent to choose from. Roy is miles clear of Southgate. There was some rubbish in those England sides of c.10 years ago.